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Thread: CL: Arsenal - Milan

  1. #217
    Registered User Haroon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew View Post
    It didn't seem like 433 to me but Zlatan was there. If you Play 433 the two wide strikers have to make a 5 man midfield in defence or it won't work. That's why Leo failed as his wide strikers were Pato and Dinho

    El Sha and Binho didn't seem to be given any defensive duties on tuesday

    See the replays again .... Milan was playing a wider 4-3-3.

    The distance between Nocerino --- Van Bommel --- Emanuelson was a lot more than they usually have. That is one reason why Rosicky was finding so much space through the middle. They were not closer together otherwise Rosicky and Song would have been suffocated through the middle.


    Milan's normal distance in a 4-3-1-2:

    | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
    | ----------------- Emanuel ---------- MvB ---------- Nocerino -------------------- |
    | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |


    Milan's distance in the 4-3-3:
    | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
    | ---- Emanuel ----------------------- MvB -------------------------- Nocerino ---- |
    | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |


    Arsenal's was penetrating the gap between MvB & Emaneulson/Nocerino. A compact Milan would never let Rosikcy through and we saw that in the second half as they were not finding space through the middle. They went clueless and lots of misplaced passes started to take place by Arsenal.



    Our front line started with El-Shaarawy on the far left, ZI in the middle and Robinho on the far right. They were wider apart. Milan always plays the close passing game. We tried to hit them by going wider. The counter-attacks we had were with El-Sharawy the breaking point because of his pace. ZI and Robinho were constantly on the middle line while El-Sha broke at pace but the problem was he was up against 3 Arsenal defenders at the back and got outmuscled and outnumbered by them.


    That all changed in the second half when Milan went more compact and started to attack with the trio. That put extra pressure on Arsenal's two DMs and their 2 CBs. They forgot how to attack and were finding it hard to get the ball let alone control the midfield or the game which was firmly in their grasp in the first half at 3-0.
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  2. #218
    Registered User Haroon's Avatar
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    Our current side is much better set-up as a 4-3-1-2 narrow team. This caused lots of problems for Barcelona in both legs and it will cause problems for others as well. Barcelona would have hammered us 6-0 in the first half if we dared to try 4-3-3 against them.

    The reason is that our current players, their attributes and training regimens have all been geared towards 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-2-1 since Allegri arrived. Players can't get out of one formation and set themselves on another overnight.


    If our team is playing well then it can cause lots of problems with that formation. What we need to do more in a 4-3-1-2 is use ZI's creativity to set-up Robinho and have Boateng as the goal-scoring mid floating in the danger zone of the opposition. If Van Bommel is fit and having a good game when we are very dangerous because Nocerino and Aquilani will give us that impetus we need.

    The left back position is a big question and that doofus Mesbah will not help. We need to use Zambrotta or Antonini this season and get a REAL LEFT-BACK in the Summer. That LEFT BACK & CDM (Van Bommel position) are two important positions to fill IMO.


    We have to accept that this Milan side is our best bet by a mile:

    ------------------------------------ Abbiati --------------------------------------

    Abate -------------- Nesta/Mexes ---------- Silva ------------------ Zamb/Antonini

    ------- Aquilani --------------- Van Bommel ---------- Nocerino -------------

    ----------------------------------- Boateng -------------------------------------

    ------------------- Robinho ------------------------- ZI ------------------------


    I am quite comfortable that that line-up can take care of anybody if our players are fit. When I say anybody, I mean anybody. We won't be easily eliminated this season. It is going to take some beating to take us down. Allegri is not going to risk stupidity like this again.
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  3. #219
    Sempre Milan! Walker's Avatar
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    I still say no matter what formation Ibra is the biggest CHOCKER in football today!!!!
    in un mese hai perso moglie,tifosi e kakà,papi vendi la società

  4. #220
    Senior Member artan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker View Post
    I still say no matter what formation Ibra is the biggest CHOCKER in football today!!!!
    spot on! he left merda and they wont the CL. i'm sorry to say this, but, Ibra is only small team destroyer, nothing more. if we want to win some silverware in europe we have to get a big game player and if possible a smarter coach than this moron, allegri. this milan side, is built to dominate the domestic league, but as for europe we have no chances. we looked like college soccer team vs Arsenal.
    Thiago Silva has to learn a lot. Show him some DVD of Baresi,Maldini... He assisted Rosicky to score the second. I won't spend a word on allegri, no need for.

  5. #221
    Moderator drew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon View Post
    See the replays again .... Milan was playing a wider 4-3-3.

    The distance between Nocerino --- Van Bommel --- Emanuelson was a lot more than they usually have. That is one reason why Rosicky was finding so much space through the middle. They were not closer together otherwise Rosicky and Song would have been suffocated through the middle.


    Milan's normal distance in a 4-3-1-2:

    | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
    | ----------------- Emanuel ---------- MvB ---------- Nocerino -------------------- |
    | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |


    Milan's distance in the 4-3-3:
    | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
    | ---- Emanuel ----------------------- MvB -------------------------- Nocerino ---- |
    | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |


    Arsenal's was penetrating the gap between MvB & Emaneulson/Nocerino. A compact Milan would never let Rosikcy through and we saw that in the second half as they were not finding space through the middle. They went clueless and lots of misplaced passes started to take place by Arsenal.



    Our front line started with El-Shaarawy on the far left, ZI in the middle and Robinho on the far right. They were wider apart. Milan always plays the close passing game. We tried to hit them by going wider. The counter-attacks we had were with El-Sharawy the breaking point because of his pace. ZI and Robinho were constantly on the middle line while El-Sha broke at pace but the problem was he was up against 3 Arsenal defenders at the back and got outmuscled and outnumbered by them.


    That all changed in the second half when Milan went more compact and started to attack with the trio. That put extra pressure on Arsenal's two DMs and their 2 CBs. They forgot how to attack and were finding it hard to get the ball let alone control the midfield or the game which was firmly in their grasp in the first half at 3-0.
    In a 433 the midfield should be compact, not leave gaping spaces! it should be more like

    --------------------------------------------Van Bommel
    ------------------------Aquilani-----------------------------------Nocerino
    -----Boateng-------------------------------------------------------------------------Robinho
    --------------------------------------------Ibrahimovic

    that way the wide forwards are the ones providing the width along with the overlapping fullbacks. The midfield 3 stay tight and compact. Playing with 2 banks of 3 is suicidal because as you say they leave gaps all over the place!

    The problem was that you had



    Abate--------------------------Mexes---------------------silva-----------------------------Mesbah
    ------------------------------------------------Van Persie

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    --------Ox-Ch------Urby----------Van Bommel---Gervinho-----------Nocerino--------Walcott


    -----------------------------------Song--------------------Rosicky



    ----------------------Robinho-------------Ibrahimovic----------------El sharaawy

    Gibbs-----------------------Vermaellen-----------------Koscielny----------------------------Sagna

    That midfield is completely overun! Especially away from home where Arsenal will dictate play. Who picks up Ox and Walcott, if the fullbacks do they will get raped by Arsenals quick fullbacks. If Nocerino or Urby come wide, it leaves Van Bommel to deal with Rosicky and Gervinho, whilst Song sits and protects the back 4. RVP is alone up front, but the way arsenal were bombarding us and breaking through our lines, he soon got support from Rosicky, Ox, Walcott and Gervinho.

    It is the same with 4312.


    Abate--------------------------Mexes---------------------silva-----------------------------Mesbah
    ------------------------------------------------Van Persie

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    --------Ox-Ch------Urby----------Van Bommel---Gervinho-----------Nocerino--------Walcott


    -----------------------------------Song--------------------Rosicky
    --------------------------------------------------Robinho


    -----------------------------------Ibrahimovic----------------El sharaawy

    Gibbs-----------------------Vermaellen-----------------Koscielny----------------------------Sagna

    In the 4312, teams who play wide, like Madrid, like Barca and like Bayern (our main rivals for the UCL) will have so much joy down the flanks.


    IMO we needed to put 5 in midfield. Even playing Zambrotta as a defending fullback and bringing Abate forward into midfield woulod have worked.

  6. #222
    Moderator drew's Avatar
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    If you play

    ---------------------------------------------------Abbiati
    Abate--------------------------Nesta-------------------------------Silva---------------------------Antonini
    ----------------------------------------------------MVB
    -------------------------------Nocerino------------------------Aquilani
    ------------Boateng----------------------------------------------------------------Robinho
    -----------------------------------------------Ibrahimovic

    Van Bommel - SITS and protects the back 4!! simple as that.
    Ibra - can drop deep pulling defenders out of position. This makes room for Aquilani and Nocerino to come into that space as nocerino has done many times. Alternatively, Prince and Binho can exploit that space from a ball by Aquilani. You have width both sides, Prince and Binho are both capable of putting in a shift supporting the midfield if nescessary. It is tight and compact but also has width!

  7. #223
    Senior Member DonCorleone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artan View Post
    spot on! he left merda and they wont the CL. i'm sorry to say this, but, Ibra is only small team destroyer, nothing more. if we want to win some silverware in europe we have to get a big game player and if possible a smarter coach than this moron, allegri. this milan side, is built to dominate the domestic league, but as for europe we have no chances. we looked like college soccer team vs Arsenal.
    Thiago Silva has to learn a lot. Show him some DVD of Baresi,Maldini... He assisted Rosicky to score the second. I won't spend a word on allegri, no need for.
    Thiago Silva is one off the best CBs in the game and the fact that he fucked up one clearance does not change anything. Neither Maldini nor Baresi were without a spot! They've fucked up many times! They are all just humans for fuck's sake! Oliver Khan or Baggio fucked up in WC final but they were still legends.
    And Ibra... don't forget its largely thanx to him we are thru! He has contributed enough in the first leg and all the team had to do was not to let 4 goals in. He was played out of position and had no support whatsoever... What was he supposed to do?! Get the ball from GK and dribble past 11 players?! I'm not saying he did well but you guys should have a little respect!
    Our midfield and marking was the biggest problem..
    "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse" - Don Corleone

  8. #224
    Senior Member Gurre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Oh and one more thing, regarding Ibra La Gazzetta rated him as one of our worst players last night giving him a 5, the only worse player than him was Binho with 4.5. Football Italia printed this - 'The 30-year-old Ibra, who scored once and assisted twice in the first leg’s 4-0 win, struggled to make any impact at the Emirates and believes the formation was to blame.' and even the Daily Mail said 'Unplayable in the first leg....anything but last night. The striker was a visual spectator for large spells and was booked'.

    So it seems it was not only me who thought Ibra could have done more last night, I'm sure some people will still overlook the facts though...
    OK, so let me straighten things out for you since you don't seem capable of doing it yourself:

    1. You're wrong about GdS ratings. Ibrahimovic didn't get 5, but 5.5, and was (according to them) better than Robinho and Urby, and as bad as Silva, Mesbah, Nocerino and El Shaarawy. To me it seems that they considered him equally bad as anyone else. Here's the proof:
    Abbiati 7 (Il Migliore), Abate 6.5, Mexes 6.5, Silva 5.5, Mesbah 5.5, Nocerino 5.5, Van Bommel 7, Emanuelson 5, Robinho 4.5 , El, Shaarawy 5.5, Ibrahimovic 5.5, Aquilani 6, Bonera S.V, Allegri 5

    2. Last time I saw your view towards GdS, you thought that a certain player was worst one on the field, and GdS rated him as Il Migliore. So that's that when it comes to "So it seems it was not only me who thought Ibra could have done more last night"...

    3. Don't put words in my mouth and insinuate that I thought he did well. It's such a cheap shot. I can quote myself if you don't believe it:
    "That's why I can see your point (he was poor)[...]"

    My point was that it was a collective failure, strengthened by bad tactics and awful individual mistakes. No one, except Abbiati (and partly Mexes), gets away with the responsibility of this. Period.

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